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This video is of Kingston working protection on training helper Greg Doud this past weekend in Albany, NY. There are clips from all 4 sessions over the two-day workshop and we worked on a few different elements of King's protection. I just threw together various pieces of each session so if any of the training concepts/methods seem unclear feel free to ask me what it is that we were working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_vR4IY1wZI

Thanks for viewing. Comments/critiques always welcome.

Why so manny hit sticks and stick touches even when he is regriping heavily and why does the helper allow so much regripping?

Hi Urska,
I really don't see that as excessive regripping at all as opposed to an occassion regrip to make the grips even fuller. He's certainly not about to let go. The speed of a fleeing/driving helper in trials and trial run-throughs will keep his grips nice and calm until the out; that's just not what we were worried about in these sessions. I'm very happy with his strikes/grips, they seem significantly calmer on a standard trial arm (and more centered too) but on that chomp sleeve he loves to keep clamping and clamping since he can feel the arm. The stick hits were because I asked the helper to apply excessive pressure; I don't get the chance to work with too many national level decoys and Kingston doesn't see much pressure from our usual club helpers.

I like that the hits only caused him to escalate his fight and I believe if the dog can take it then why not? I realize he'll never see that much pressure in a trial so really no need to do that often, if ever again. He certainly did not apply that much pressure to the majority of dogs at the workshop and he's excellent at reading dogs' comfort levels.

I'm actually going to pull the video until I can confirm that the helper doesn't mind me posting his sessions. Should have done that before..

Perceptions change for a dog once all the war gear and leads come off and you're not close to him to offer support.

Yes the dog did a lot of regripping and he was at the elbow almost every single bite. Now how much was actually natural tendency to go fuller by regripping and how much was due to all the added pressure you can't be sure. You can blame it on the chomp arm if it helps justify it for you.

You're asking an awful lot from a 23 month old dog.

Dave,

You have a very nice dog, as I have posted many times. As for this particular group of sessions, I personally beleve there were mistakes made. With the excessive amounts of stick hits, I could see the dog getting closer to the elbo, not on the elbo but closer to the elbo (away from the stick).To me that is just instinct, but with alot of repitition like this it is possible to create a problem. Yes, it does elevate fight drive, but so much could do more harm than good. Also at his age, it is a bit much. As for that type of sleeve, I do not like to use one of those because they do like to chomp on it, and I dont like to see them move that much on the sleeve. Some may disagree with me on the sleve issue. Just be careful with who you let work your dog, you can create more problems in a few sessions than you can fix in a very long time. And for the record, I think the helpers that have been working your dog in the past videos you have posted have been doing a fine job. I personally would stick with them for now.

Hi Keith,
My take on his grips was not to offer a possible explanation on why he may have been regripping or hitting high towards the elbow.. Though I fully admit to not knowing as much about schutzhund protection work as you or Chip might, I do get to watch Kingston work on a weekly basis and am fully aware of his tendencies, confidence level and different behaviors in many different situations. There are various reasons I wanted to work what we did during this weekend's sessions and perhaps I should've offered a detailed explanation on everything when posting this video.

Again, I do not know enough yet to evaluate any dog out there and diagnose why it is they do what they do, but I am very confident when it comes to reading my dogs and even more confident in this particular helper's ability to read my dogs and diagnose different issues. With that being said, Kingston has his 'issues' that I know need to be worked on. Hitting above the ideal target area is one of them. When trying to fix this issue, the chomp is NOT a sleeve I think is ideal for such a problem. These sessions were not focused on his targeting in any way, shape or form. I'm sure you are then wondering why exacerbate the issue? My answer to that is that his targeting, while not ideal, is not what will cause me to score very poorly at trial. If I never get it fixed (which I won't just accept by any means), I am still more than happy with the fullness and power of his grips, as every helper who has caught him can testify too. I don't mean to come off as arrogant or talking my dog up at all; again, he has his issues.. I simply don't have the opportunity to work with many national level helpers often so I wanted to focus this weekend on other areas of King's work that could really benefit from his abilities. His targeting is something I have every intention on working with my club helpers throughout the coming season.

The pressure? Kingston doesn't see much, if any, pressure at all from my club helpers, and I'm happy about that. I do like to mix things up every so often for my own peace of mind that he can take the pressure he'll see in trial and not be caught off guard by it and react sensitively. Again, I shouldn't have expected any of you to know this but I am VERY confident in my ability to read my own dogs and even more confident in this helper's abilities. I would never, and he would never, in a million years put that kind of pressure on a dog that would react poorly to it. You may see that regripping as King reacting poorly, and I can respect that and to a degree I think you are right, but I can promise you those hits were not detrimental to Kingston's gripwork in the long run and (you may have heard this before, but) when it comes trial time the pressure he'll get will feel like pillow hits and not cause him to react or even worse, flee. That being said, I would never put that kind of pressure on King on a weekly basis for several reasons but I do see a benefit to it occassionally since I personally know he's strong enough to handle it. I see that you don't see the benefit, and I can fully respect that, but I do.. I couldn't be happier with where he is at this point in his training, aside from the targeting, but I am confident I can improve that in time with the right help along the way.

I apologize for the length of this response but I wanted to try to clarify that I am not someone who's bringing my dog to any joe schmoe to be worked, but someone who is clear on what I want to train, and with who, to try to take him as far as he can go down the road. I know you guys would only have expressed concern if you cared about Kingston's well being and want to see him succeed as well, so I definitely appreciate you taking the time to comment and share your thoughts with me.

My opinion- pressure like that too soon (even if only sporadically) will not be beneficial for a dog that is constantly re-gripping and not targeting properly. It serves no beneficial purpose on the dog at that age that has grip issues.

Appreciate you sharing your thoughts also, Skip. Again, I can see that different people focus on different aspects of training when watching these sorts of videos, and that's a good thing for someone like me who's seeking insight. I imagine this might stir discussion amongst you all on how misguided I might be, but although some of you may be worried about his grips, I am really not as concerned.

Dave, my intention was never to make you defend yourself or the helper I just commented on what I saw. And I didn't like it very much even though I like your dog. I belive the owner of the dog should have the ability to say STOP whenever he doesn't like the training but a good helper should be able to say": You asked me to put a lot of pressure on the dog. From his response I just don't think this is the right approach at this stage. My suggestion would be to work on this and this."

We have some good competiton level helpers in Slovenia (some even published in Total Rottweiler Magazine - laughing like crazy). But they don't see my dogs anywhere else except at the competition. I'm very picky when it comes to who can work my dogs. I'm also very critical when it comes to assessment of someones helper work. I look at the dogs who regulary work with a certain helper, look at their level of work, the consistency of their results, their development over a time period (progress) and how they perform at the start and in 2-3 years. I think I found the best possible helper for me and my dogs. I have seen manny others work, have asked a lot of questions but some explanations were just insufficient and over time the results have shown my concerns were justified. I don't like show-offs, I think a good helper must make an assessment of the dog and adapt each training session to dogs abilities and progress. You can't have a clear plan and stick to it as a dog is not a machine. And over time my decision has proven as a correct one and even if we have some better known helpers they are just not an option.

In rottweiler world Oliver is in my oppinion a helper that has the ability to read the dog, to not go too far and his working style is safe for a dog. I have full confidence in him as on the field his focus is the dog only and nothing but. And even if he was not a breeder and even if he wouldn't run a single lap in a show ring he would be someone a working dog world would know because of his feeling for the dog.

In general also Yenner that works with Oliver is good, I also like the work of Florian Knabl and Peter Scherk, Peter Verachtert just to name a few more.

In the end what I wanted to say is - you must find a helper that will read the dog and do good for the dog no matter what. No matter if you complain, no matter if you ask for something else. And I hope you find one as it makes your life a lot easier.

Thanks for the response, Urksa. All I'll say is that I definitely agree with you that anyone training to succeed in this sport should find a helper(s) that they are completely comfortable working with.