Rottweileronline.net

This is a great video for all of you who blame breeders and conformation people for why the Rottweiler won't work. Maybe the dogs are not watered down at all. Maybe it is the trainers who are getting weaker. I'm sure this dog doesn't have a real strong base of working Rottweilers in it's pedigree

WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTN5kTkd ... r_embedded

That's your basis for your argument?

"This is a great video for all of you who blame breeders and conformation people for why the Rottweiler won't work."
Explain how this video justifies your arguments!

Actually the funny thing about the video is its a JRT, which basically split itself off from its show crowd who wanted AKC recognition. You will not find another Murphey in the "Parson Russell Terrier" group but I bet anything coming out of JRTCA will bite pretty damn well. So working pedigree -yes it does have! Go check out JRTCA website. Great organization.

I will try to explain but a lot of things that I say or write don't seem to come out as well as I'd like at times. I just think that if someone can teach a dog like that to do what it does then it SHOULDN'T be that hard to find a Rottweiler that can do the same thing. I just think and it is just my opinion that it would take a LOT of piss poor breeding to water down a breed to the point that it can't be trained and has no heart. If you look at most pedigrees today there are solid dogs only one or two generations back. I personally don't believe that is a long enough to completely ruin a breed of any dog. There are dogs with a Schutzhund 3 sire and a dam bred from parents who are both at least Schutzhund 2 or 3. It just doesn't seem possible to lose all that working ability because one female didn't have a title but a lot of those pups just don't have what it takes from what working people say. I guess that is what makes me wonder if some of it isn't training or people just not staying with a dog long enough to teach it what it needs to learn. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Andy, I understand what your are trying to say and why you think that.

JRT are not a good example.

Go find me a cocker spanial that can do schutzhund.
Or pretty much ANY breed that wasn't bred to go to ground to attack shit. JRT have a program that would make them fairly suitable for any police organization if they werent so pocket size. They were bred and specifically tested for similiar attributes that make such good working dogs overall. Earth Dog events are literally a test of a dogs courage, tenacity, and determination. I bet most dogs who were bred to go to ground would have a pretty damn good abilities for things like bitework.

They go to ground to attack BADGERS for god sakes. Have you met a badger? They aren't nice creatures. They make a guy in a sleeve look like a cake walk.

Actually if we are talking about other competitions that can actually test a dog's breed suitability...I would put earth dog up there. Go into a tiny confined dark space and attack a very angry creature, with the risk of the entire tunnel collapsing and burying you alive. If they could make tunnels that were Rottweiler sized I'd sure as heck be involved!

And yes, I have met MANY Rottweilers who CANNOT do the work. And yes their parents were SchH3. And yes that gets into a discussion of fake titles, nerve thresholds and drives required for the work and a whole host of other things you will not be able to understand until you actually work your dog.

Oh and there is a huge difference between a dog that can get by with the title and a dog that is actually a GOOD schutzhund dog.

I think if you look at the breed as a whole, there are many who can ekk by on their own field, on their own decoy, with a one eyed judge on a full moon with some fairy dust sprinkled on them

Then there are dogs who are actually good. They can do Regionals, nationals, and World-level competition...anywhere, anytime.

The problem with the breed is that people make claim that their dog is the latter, when it is barely the former. Then the issue is muddied by corrupt judges handing out V-scores of 280+ for a dog that should be getting 70-70-80 on its BEST day.


And yes, there is a HUGE portion of the breed who just plainly can't do schutzhund. Poor nerves, lack of courage, grip issues, lack of food drive, not enough nerve to handle the group/judge portion, jumping issues, etc etc etc. Trust me...I've been approached by a lot of people to title their Rottweilers and I'm just at the point where I'm not titling the breed for anyone anymore. It has to be a pretty exceptional dog. I'm just disheartened by the dogs I've been evaluating. They SUCK. And now they are with Herr-so 'n so in Germany getting their 290s and will be back in the states with their breed credentials.

If only a jagdterrier or patterdale terrier could be transformed over night into the size of a rottweiler.

I agree....JRT are great working dogs, haven't been ruined yet by overbreeding. They have lots of fight and love to work!!! Don't let their size fool ya. I purchase a boston terrier last year and what a great fun dog. She has more courage and fight in her than my schutzhund background rottweiler, that is afraid of his own shadow. I would be more willing to try schutzhund with my terrier than my "properly" bred rottweiler.

I don't know what is happening to the working part of the rottweiler breed but for sure my experience has been poor.

Who are the parents of your dog(s)?

My daughter's Patterdale Terrier is unfortunately picking up the habits of our Rottweilers...

Andy,

The training in our country is better than it has ever been in the past twenty years. There are many more methods and resources.

That being said, it is easier to train a good or great dog, because allot of their basic drives are there and some good dogs are more forgiving of mediocre handling and training. The real test and answer to part of your question/statement has to do with a handler/trainers ability to train a dog with medium drive, and an instructors ablility to coach a handler team. This is were working with someone with training experience is helpful. Trainers with the abilities to shape, tap drive, balance and progress a dog thru a formalized program is where the real magic is. I have taken several medium drive dogs, put 400 hours in them and have people comment on what a monster they are on the field. They didn't get to be a Mike Tyson overnight. The real question is how many owners are willing to dedicate themselves and their dog to a strenuous program. Many are called .......

Pay attention to some of the old school trainers. Many of these people for years were able to take all kinds of dogs and get the best out of them. These people have proven results, not rhetoric. Today, I see many individuals that view sport dogs as disposable. If they don't hit 280, they are out and onto a new dog, or they are off to Europe to get that 280. Rarely do you see these dogs competing at National Events.

I received a call from one of our club members that went down with me to a USA Helper Seminar. While Mark Scarberry and I were on the field instructing helpers, this member was having a conversation with the training director (over 30 years experience) of the host club.
The member shared with me that the host training director told him the best move he made was getting with, and staying with a group of experienced schutzhund people.

This member and his dog have grown quite a bit the past couple of years with moderate success. Most importantly he has learned work ethic. Here is a guy who had a complete hip replacement this spring, put more effort into tracking, and dropped 50 lbs. He has put BH on 2 dogs, a breed test, and shown for Sch 1 a couple of times. The reason he has had success with his dogs is he shows up to club, goes to seminars, books, videos, etc., but most importantly he listens to the experienced people. His goal is to be on the field at the USRC National Schuzhund Championships with his dog. I believe he will get there.

Hope this helps,

Dan Williams
North Central Regional Director
MMRSK Training Director

Precious Gems Braveheart BH,P1,OB1,T1,FO,TT,CGC
Goldmoors Ava BH,FO.TT,CGC
Fax v. Pappelhaus BH,P1,Ob1,T1,FO,TT,CGC

OTB
Williams Bronson v. Grant Sch III, IPO III, VB,AD,BST,CDX, Am/Can. CD/TD, MRC Hall of Fame
1986 MRC Sch. CH.
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